459 replies to this topic

[Davidgro]

Hi,

 

My story is very typical around here.

On 2009-09-21 I placed a pre-order with Craig's shop.  In Sept. of 2012 I requested a refund and after a few e-mails, exactly 3 years after I got myself into this mess, on 2012-09-21 Jacquelyn said "You will receive email confirmation on the day your refund is processed."

 

Of course I have sent other messages back and forth in the mean time, but I get the distinct impression that although the preorder queue was real (at least in the past) the refund queue may not be.

 

 

So, my question is: Has Anyone actually gotten their money back from Craig's shop lately?

 

 

(I probably should have posted this in General, but we'll see if I can get an answer here first.)

 

Thanks.

[apersonthinks]

http://boards.openpa...-old-customers/

[Davidgro]

http://boards.openpa...-old-customers/

Yes, I've read that.  I also looked in the replies and didn't see any answers to the question. (Is "taking months" code for "not happening at all"?)

[elwing]

well, ED send pandoras to craig, not money, since he doesn't sell products anymore, your money won't appears magically out of thin air... your best hope is that:
1 - the ICP2 will generate benefit.
2 - that craigix wants to invest his newly gained money in his pandora company...


edit: that's how I perceive things, I'm not tied with anyone and I don't have special information that proves I'm right...

[ZXDunny]

I hear Craig is planning to upgrade his shiny modern car to a more modern version this year. Might not be much left over for refunds after that!

D.

[Klumpen]

I hear Craig is planning to upgrade his shiny modern car to a more modern version this year. Might not be much left over for refunds after that!

D.

[Moxie]

Before we go much further with this:

 

* Craig has expressed a desire for a new car, not an actual plan to buy one.

 

* There is a difference between Craig and OP Ltd. It is quite possible for Craig (the person) to have money, without OP Ltd (the company) to have any money. Any demands for refunds or suchlike are to the company, not Craig personally. If OP Ltd bought a new car, that might be objectionable.

 

Apart from that, by all means vent frustration, but keep the facts straight.

[comradekingu]

You are entitled to your funds, you do not in any way hurt the pandora project in doing so, as openpandora Limited, craigs company is a seperate entity from EDs company, (openpandora GmbH) ED is handling things together with Link, notaz, mweston and many many others. Craig uses "we" alot, but he has nothing to do with the others anymore.

Its noteworthy that after an attempt to unite craigs customers in a class action lawsuit against him, posting to ask craig questions was supressed.

 

Good luck.

[Mr_Loon]

IMHO the question in the opening post should be broadened slightly to : When was the last refund received from OP Ltd. ?

 

Despite the 1 Ghz fiasco being caused by refunds for lots of units (hundreds?) I don't recall a single person posting that they had received a refund even after the 1 Ghz money went astray.

[notaz]

IMHO the question in the opening post should be broadened slightly to : When was the last refund received from OP Ltd. ?

I think this can be roughly deduced by looking at "Ask Craig question" forum:
http://boards.openpa...craig-questions

The last post where Craig assured he refunded someone is here (Sep 15 2012): http://boards.openpa...ic/9990-refund/
salve hasn't posted after this, so it can be assumed he was most likely refunded.

Then there was similar post from obsidianzero (Oct 1): http://boards.openpa...c/10180-refund/
He was not refunded as he later made this thread: http://boards.openpa...s-should-unite/
After that flood of unanswered refund requests start in Craig's forum.

So refunds stopped sometime in September I guess.
As for what to do, someone reported going through the credit company (or paypal at least) helped to get the refund.

[Klumpen]

The main problem seems to be, that OpenPandora Ltd. does not seem to be very open about the finances.

Many people here are getting the feeling, that the money from the 1Ghz preorders went straight to ICP2 or Craigs personal finances and not into refunds or new Pandoras.

[Binky]

I wish Craig would understand that,  on the whole, we will think better of his if he is straightforwardly honest.

 

Something like "sorry, OP.Ltd is broke, its ED's problem now"

or " I will pay money into OP.Ltd from iCP2 profits, and will then be able to pay refunds"

or even "Pandoras suck, I'm not interested anymore"

 

Would be far better than the current policy of silence.

(please note that the above are examples, not quotes or statements of fact)

[Maquis196]

As someone who is waiting for a refund from Craig also I'm hoping that icp2 turns out to be quite succesfull. The timing seems to match up between last refund and kickstart going up.

 

Could be that Craig is so paranoid about icp2 money being used for openpandora stuff that he can't do anything, so once the last icp2 ships (that were preordered from kickstarter) I'm hoping that the refunds will resume.

 

I like how openpandora hapenned, I don't want to see Craig go under due to me forcing the issue. I wont threaten to sue or anything like that.

 

Just a bit of a "this is whats going on with refunds" would be nice though. I do wish that I was able to get the pandora he sent me and just sell it on straight away now, ah well.

[Klumpen]

Could be that Craig is so paranoid about icp2 money being used for openpandora stuff that he can't do anything

I still believe, that Pandora money is/was used for ICP2 and this might be illegal.

[Timstertoo]

Before we go much further with this:

 

* Craig has expressed a desire for a new car, not an actual plan to buy one.

 

* There is a difference between Craig and OP Ltd. It is quite possible for Craig (the person) to have money, without OP Ltd (the company) to have any money. Any demands for refunds or suchlike are to the company, not Craig personally. If OP Ltd bought a new car, that might be objectionable.

 

Apart from that, by all means vent frustration, but keep the facts straight.

That might be legally so. Morally it's quite shitty and I think ZXDunny has every right to that comment.

 

I think everyone who asked for a refund is royally screwed. OP Ltd has no visible income at the moment so how would Craig get money to repay people. It's not as if he's shown any hint of having a conscience. There is only one group of Craig's customers that has any hope and those are the ones still waiting and ordered early enough to have a chance of ED taking care of them.

 

With the holders turning into a problem and the delays I don't think a lot of money will be left from the ICP2 and if there's any money left Craig will use that privately instead of dumping it into a company that's about to go bankrupt as soon as someone pulls the trigger.

 

I missed the whole new car thing, But really, a new car? Even if it is a completely logical thing to do for whatever reason you really have a serious lack in the empathic part of your brain if you go public with that whilst having dumped 100s of people in the shitter with your projects. 

[Moxie]

There is no new car. There was a discussion about the Tesla S somewhere, and Craig remarked that if he could afford it, he'd love to swap his Nissan Leaf for a Tesla S when they were released for general sale. That is quite far from "Planning to buy..."

 

I am in no way happier about OP Ltds lack of communication (or funds. Or income. Or any sort of hope-inspiring activity at all) than any of you, but I do believe that there is enough real stuff to be upset about, that we do not need to invent imaginary problems.

[Scntrblob]

Thing is that he suddenly appears in some underground-thread here stating something worthless after being absent for months. He has probably read all this stuff, all the people asking for help, ignoring them. Not THAT'S something real, isn't it?

[Moxie]

Indeed it is.

[Davidgro]

IMHO the question in the opening post should be broadened slightly to : When was the last refund received from OP Ltd. ?

I think this can be roughly deduced by looking at "Ask Craig question" forum:
http://boards.openpa...craig-questions

The last post where Craig assured he refunded someone is here (Sep 15 2012): http://boards.openpa...ic/9990-refund/
salve hasn't posted after this, so it can be assumed he was most likely refunded.

...

So refunds stopped sometime in September I guess.

 

Thank you, I guess that answers that.

 

As for what to do, someone reported going through the credit company (or paypal at least) helped to get the refund.

Jacquelyn actually suggested that to me. Unfortunately the bank I was with when I made the preorder was purchased and gradually became evil, to the point where I had to close my accounts there. I still called them and asked about chargebacks but no dice.

[elwing]

well, ED send pandoras to craig, not money, since he doesn't sell products anymore, your money won't appears magically out of thin air... your best hope is that:
1 - the ICP2 will generate benefit.
2 - that craigix wants to invest his newly gained money in his pandora company...


edit: that's how I perceive things, I'm not tied with anyone and I don't have special information that proves I'm right...

That is still my opinion, and I think I don't make some too wild assumption...
 
 

I hear Craig is planning to upgrade his shiny modern car to a more modern version this year. Might not be much left over for refunds after that!

D.

now, that's a funny comment, but it's nothing else, craig will not buy a car with our money, forget that...
 
 

Thing is that he suddenly appears in some underground-thread here stating something worthless after being absent for months. He has probably read all this stuff, all the people asking for help, ignoring them. Not THAT'S something real, isn't it?

that is the most worrying thought of this whole thread...