27 replies to this topic

[Craigix]

Due to apple starting to sue people using their iPhone dock connector we are having to reveal a little secret.

The iControlpad has a Bluetooth chip in it - we planned to add support for this in good time mainly for Android devices.

However due to us now having to drop the iPhone dock connection we need help in making this work now.

Simple question, would SPP protocol ever work on the iPhone?

[Gadgetoid]

Simple question, would SPP protocol ever work on the iPhone?

There's a certain amount of animosity towards RFCOMM which forms the basis of SPP, so I would be inclined to say: no. Or, at least, don't count on it.

http://code.google.com/p/btstack/wiki/RFCOMM

There are plenty of examples of BTStack being used to achieve things similar to the the iControlPad. Most notably, of course, is Wiimote support which is built into a handful of emulators already. All I can say is, whatever the Wiimote is doing, you need to do too.

It's probably a bonkers suggestion, but can a USB port not be implemented which a user can plug their existing Apple USB->Dock connector cable into? This already works (with the iPad anyway) for USB audio adaptors and keyboards.

[Jonlad1]

Due to apple starting to sue people using their iPhone dock connector....

Jesus christ, that is taking the piss. Next they will be suing people for using different branded earphones.

I am so glad I bought an Android phone.

[ReiYano]

How about just making the icontrolpad have a female usb port on the side and people can plug in the ipod or iphone with their own cords?

[Craigix]

How about just making the icontrolpad have a female usb port on the side and people can plug in the ipod or iphone with their own cords?

You can't, they don't carry all the required lines. You could use it for charging though.

[ReiYano]

You can't, they don't carry all the required lines. You could use it for charging though.

damn. I hate apple.

[Illuminerdi]

How about just making the icontrolpad have a female usb port on the side and people can plug in the ipod or iphone with their own cords?

I had that same idea, but it's probably not terribly feasible in the short term. It would mean remaking the cases slightly, which would mean a new mold a cases, aka: long delay - and I think the cases may already be made, which would also mean a huge monetary loss. It would also possibly mean redesigning the circuit board for the ICP, which would mean remaking those which may already have been made as well (Craig said that the cables were the only missing piece).

Personally, I think they should just ship the ICP with Dock Connector cables - it's too small of a product for Apple to go after them in the short term, and just modify batch 2 to not use the cable/use Female USB, etc.

Seriously - could the timing have been any worse? Mere weeks from shipping these things Apple decides to get sue happy. Had they sued even a few weeks later the ICP likely would have shipped as planned.

[Illuminerdi]

One question which has not yet been addressed is what this will mean for the internal ICP battery? Unless the ICP includes magical power transferring pixie dust it'll still have to plug into the phone to provide battery juice. So either they're going to take out the battery (and lower the price), or get a female USB port on there, which then begs the question of why the BT is necessary as opposed to just doing stuff over USB for iPhones for now?

Nevermind - Craig just twittered (in a roundabout way) that this is still possible, using the cable. Which means there's already a female USB onboard? More details plz!

[Craigix]

There's a certain amount of animosity towards RFCOMM which forms the basis of SPP, so I would be inclined to say: no. Or, at least, don't count on it.

http://code.google.com/p/btstack/wiki/RFCOMM

There are plenty of examples of BTStack being used to achieve things similar to the the iControlPad. Most notably, of course, is Wiimote support which is built into a handful of emulators already. All I can say is, whatever the Wiimote is doing, you need to do too.

It's probably a bonkers suggestion, but can a USB port not be implemented which a user can plug their existing Apple USB->Dock connector cable into? This already works (with the iPad anyway) for USB audio adaptors and keyboards.

There is example code there showing it works, at least for simple devices, if we can be sure we can get basic comminications going with SPP we are *already* ready to roll and don't need to do much more to get this back on track!

[pasc]

Craig: do you mean that it works usingna dock cable ? If there are not enoigh lines I got two tips:

1.) Send the iCP with anything and the cable, but have us solder the cable ourselves.
2.) Think of your own cable standard so we can instead just plug it in without any BT hassel.

If anything fails just use BT and leave a connection in the iCP open so we can solder our own cables (with online guides from you guys ) to the iCP.

There is one thing I don't get:

I bought a iGPS360 some time ago which is also using a dock connector. Why was this no problem ? Couldn't you then use a plastic bridge connector instead of a cable ?

[benji_stein]

Due to apple starting to sue people using their iPhone dock connector we are having to reveal a little secret.

The iControlpad has a Bluetooth chip in it - we planned to add support for this in good time mainly for Android devices.

Would you mind explaining why this was kept a secret? It seems like a great feature that you should be touting, to attract more attention. It opens up more possibilities for devices, possibly even using the control pad as a controller for a computer (overkill perhaps, but there's something to be said for consistency in controls is). Not having (or wanting) an iPhone, knowing this makes the iCP more appealing.

So why the secrecy?

[Wintersdark]

Would you mind explaining why this was kept a secret? It seems like a great feature that you should be touting, to attract more attention. It opens up more possibilities for devices, possibly even using the control pad as a controller for a computer (overkill perhaps, but there's something to be said for consistency in controls is). Not having (or wanting) an iPhone, knowing this makes the iCP more appealing.

So why the secrecy?

I'd assume it was because they didn't have the support fully set up for it yet, and wanted more development time to get bluetooth working smoothly; but wanted to deliver a product they'd already described without additional delays.

You can't, they don't carry all the required lines. You could use it for charging though.

Craig, will you leave headers on the iCP board so we can manually attach our own custom dock cables easily? Say, include a cable with pinout info but without the apple dock connector, so we can pick one up from Sparkfun or some such and throw it together easily enough?

[Craigix]

Would you mind explaining why this was kept a secret? It seems like a great feature that you should be touting, to attract more attention. It opens up more possibilities for devices, possibly even using the control pad as a controller for a computer (overkill perhaps, but there's something to be said for consistency in controls is). Not having (or wanting) an iPhone, knowing this makes the iCP more appealing.

So why the secrecy?

We don't have the drivers ready and it was going to be the final surprise when ordering started.

[benji_stein]

We don't have the drivers ready and it was going to be the final surprise when ordering started.

Well, I'd completely given up any interest in the iCP because it seemed primarily geared to the iPhone, and I'm sure I can't be the only one. As I mentioned, knowing this makes it more appealing, and the only reason I happened to see this thread was because of the OPT comment tracker. I'm sure there are others who similarly stopped paying attention, and don't following the Pandora, so will never find out. Seems like a shame to lose the sales for the sake of a surprise later on. But far be it for me to give you marketing advice...

Edit: Will it eventually be possible to connect up multiple iCPs to the same device, to end up having two people playing the same game with multiple controllers?

[Craigix]

Well, I'd completely given up any interest in the iCP because it seemed primarily geared to the iPhone, and I'm sure I can't be the only one. As I mentioned, knowing this makes it more appealing, and the only reason I happened to see this thread was because of the OPT comment tracker. I'm sure there are others who similarly stopped paying attention, and don't following the Pandora, so will never find out. Seems like a shame to lose the sales for the sake of a surprise later on. But far be it for me to give you marketing advice...

Edit: Will it eventually be possible to connect up multiple iCPs to the same device, to end up having two people playing the same game with multiple controllers?

We always said it would work on any phone, we just had not yet revealed how that would happen. It would have been announced when we moved in to the Android area but you have to understand we're not a huge company and we're trying to bring iCP to market without preorders.

We're kind of stuck with the SPP protocol at the moment but we will see where we end up in a day or two now this is having to be accelerated.

(also we only have 3000 iCPs - we don't need too many sales right now!)

[Wintersdark]

We're kind of stuck with the SPP protocol at the moment but we will see where we end up in a day or two now this is having to be accelerated.

Will it still support SPP through a dock connector if we make our own? Will that be relatively simple?

[dll_]

Gameplay on any emu on iphone via bluetooth is already choppy.Please include the dock cable.

Will the addition of bluetooth chip increase the price of the ICP?

[benji_stein]

Gameplay on any emu on iphone via bluetooth is already choppy.Please include the dock cable.

If they're fearful of apple suing them, it's not really something they can decide to do. But I do wonder about the performance penalties.

Will the addition of bluetooth chip increase the price of the ICP?

No, as Craigix said:

The iControlpad has a Bluetooth chip in it - we planned to add support for this in good time mainly for Android devices.

It's already in it. So no additional delays (or costs) in manufacturing/etc. should be necessary, just driver/interface work.

[Exophase]

There are plenty of examples of BTStack being used to achieve things similar to the the iControlPad. Most notably, of course, is Wiimote support which is built into a handful of emulators already. All I can say is, whatever the Wiimote is doing, you need to do too.

They're probably using a BT module that only supports SPP.

[Lucid00]

Due to apple starting to sue people using their iPhone dock connector we are having to reveal a little secret.

The iControlpad has a Bluetooth chip in it - we planned to add support for this in good time mainly for Android devices.

Would it be possible to use the headphone jack here?

I mean products like Square send credit card data via the headphone jack and there are already headphone remotes out there.

Plus this wouldn't require an external battery, and would work almost anywhere.