83 replies to this topic

[EvilDragon]

Wellwellwell, this post is no news, but just a small reminder to read my posts CAREFULLY.

I heard from Craig that a lot of people sent him an angry mail about the SoC upgrade and want to cancel right away, etc.

Whoever did that: Please read my posts CAREFULLY.

So far, this is just a possible option that MIGHT happen.
As I said, we neither have a price yet and we also already own more OMAPs, so we'd need to discuss with our distributor about that upgrade as well.

This is far from actually being happening, I just wanted to share my thoughts and ask up front what you think about that.

It's a VERY big IF, but before trying to waste time to check if we can pull that through, we wanted to know what the community is thinking.

No need for a panic at the moment.

Thanks for reading

[milkshake]

wow im sorry to hear this, some people should learn to read and fully understand before emailing craig, also I wonder why non of your customers have emailed you frantically?

[ahahah]

they emailed craig to cancel their preorders because they thought they would probably get a 1ghz cpu and they don't want that?

i don't understand their reaction.

[EvilDragon]

they emailed craig to cancel their preorders because they thought they would probably get a 1ghz cpu and they don't want that?

i don't understand their reaction.

I guess they thought they would get the old one only.

They probably didn't read my post carefully, that's what happens then.

[Gadgetoid]

they emailed craig to cancel their preorders because they thought they would probably get a 1ghz cpu and they don't want that?

i don't understand their reaction.

I guess they thought they would get the old one only.

They probably didn't read my post carefully, that's what happens then.

What really kicked it off was a, possibly out of context, translation of posts you made in German. Your subsequent posts may have served only to reinforce that original idea, rather than clarify it.

But, hey, at least we got some Drama out of it!

[Caine]

But, hey, at least we got some Drama out of it!

It does bring some more life to this place, doesn't it

[cosurgi]

while we are speculating... is it technically possible to upgrade RAM size also?

[Grench]

while we are speculating... is it technically possible to upgrade RAM size also?

You read my mind.

Waiting on the CPU to do something isn't so bad. Waiting for it to swap web pages in and out of /swap on an SD card OS install - that's bad. Having it not be willing to do things because of lack of RAM is even worse.

Of course, in light of MWeston's post it throws another twist on the whole chip upgrade issue. How many of these chips does OPL own anyway?

Here is a simplistic solution.
Only allow Pandora consoles to be purchased with parts using the existing chip supply - with a few exceptions.
Sell motherboard (with new chip) replacement upgrades at a profit to existing Pandora owners. $250?
New purchasers can opt for this upgrade at purchase - at the same price point as replacement upgrades. $750 1Ghz Pandora?
Pre-orders who have not received their units yet can opt for the upgrade - and the upgrade price bump - as well.

Once the stock of base chips is paid for, roll the price back down to $500 with the updated chip included.

About the time that the roll back on the 1Ghz with existing hardware hits though - by then there should be a Pandora II coming to market at the higher price point.

It's called Segmentation. It is a term that is often abused by MBAs. The underlying business reality definition of segmentation is:
Segmentation: A method of ensuring that those who are able or willing to pay more for a product or service do.

It isn't evil. It's business.

[EvilDragon]

We don't have the RAM chips yet, so yeah, those could be upgraded technically?

[Delirius]

EvilDragon

Will new processors cost more now, than the old ones did when you bought them?
I presume, that new ones are cheaper, because boom of 2-core processors for tablets.

[Neko]

ED has gotten several offers from investors to finance batch 2. It's all about being able to sell enough Pandoras to recoup that investment. If it's possible to sell 600MHz Pandoras for $500, and 1000Mhz/512MB Pandoras for $750, then do it.

[cosurgi]

New purchasers can opt for this upgrade at purchase - at the same price point as replacement upgrades. $750 1Ghz Pandora?

selling two types of hardware could be more expensive. Especially if the slower one has more expensive parts (because it's outdated) - but I don't know..

Poll

I've been trying to help you with poll options, but I see it's actually crazy difficult.
I think we should talk about that, before you start the poll. It will help creating good poll options, that people want.

It's really hard, so bash this constructively.

1st:
If we go 1GHz, then every currently unfulfilled order will be upgraded to 1GHz, without price increase for a faster pandora. Do you want us to go 1GHz?
- yes - I didn't receive my unit yet, I want to receive a faster one for same price
- yes - I already received my unit and I will want to upgrade mine
- yes - I already received my unit and I will NOT want to upgrade mine
- no - I didn't receive my unit yet, I want to receive the original one
- no - I already received my unit and I do NOT want to upgrade mine

(sorry - no vote option for "whatever - just make it quick", because it is not constructive)


2nd:
If we go 1GHz, then every currently unfulfilled order will be upgraded to 1GHz, but price WILL increase for a faster pandora - we will need additional payment from all people that currently ordered, or they can cancel. And there is no option of selling a slower unit (will not be produced). Do you want us to go 1GHz?
- yes - I didn't receive my unit yet, I want to receive a faster one for HIGHER price
- yes - I already received my unit and I will want to upgrade mine
- yes - I already received my unit and I will NOT want to upgrade mine
- no - I didn't receive my unit yet, I want to receive the original one.
- no - I didn't receive my unit yet, I want to receive the original one - if you do this I will cancel my preorder.
- no - I already received my unit and I do NOT want to upgrade mine


3rd
Would you pre-order, without pre-paying a faster pandora? This will help us in getting a bank loan.
- yes. "A new faster one please". Vote this only if you really mean to buy it
- yes - but I mean upgrading my current pandora, at whatever reasonable cost, like PCB, about 250 EUR
- no

EDIT: ED - when you will posts that poll, you will need a MAXIMUM exposure to all customers. Write about it on main site, send email to everyone subscribed in the newsletter. But be careful how you send it. I can help you with wording it in a nice way, if you want.

[F_Slim]

now I'm finally completely confused about parts, possibilities, options, timeframes ... everything.
I should just leave and not check back until December to see if production will start again soon, and what parts the batch 2 Pandoras will have.

(I know I won't, because I suck up every bit of news about this project since I know about it like a vacuum cleaner ... but still this is what I should do ...)

[dgame]

As a first batcher who has received a Pandora I don’t feel that EvilDragon and company owe me anything more. I got what I paid for.

However, it would be NICE if I could get an early spot in line (at the normal price) for the newer-faster version IF it happens.

I can understand how the people who have waited this long and not received a Pandora would be miffed at the thought of finally receiving a Pandora and then having the faster one released soon thereafter. But that is life it happens all the time with electronics (Apple I’m looking at you.)

Also what is the (possible) new 3D Chip? IF it happens are we going to get working drivers this time?

And why not throw in some more RAM since were re-doing the SoC anyway?

EvilDragon, I feel your pain buddy. These are tough choices. IMO all you owe existing pre-orders are what they paid for. So if they get 600 MHz then you fulfilled your obligations. IF they get 1000 MHz then that is a bonus for them. Now IF they are canceling their pre-orders and waiting for the 1000 MHZ to be standard then . . .

[Grench]

We don't have the RAM chips yet, so yeah, those could be upgraded technically?

To me, more RAM is WAY more important than more CPU clock. Opinions may vary.

What are the RAM options that can be purchased to strap onto the OMAP during assembly?

I really really like my Pandora.
But, if you guys do one with double the RAM (even with the same CPU) I'd really have to consider buying the new one and giving mine to my kids.
If you guys do one with a full GB of RAM and a faster chip, I would simply have to do it.

MWeston posted that there were $100,000 worth of the existing CPU still in OPL inventory.
Is that:
1000 chips at $100 each?
2000 chips at $50 each?
10000 chips at $10 each?

Likely somewhere in between some of those. What I'm getting at though is: If OPL is going to restrict hardware production to the existing model & setup until this supply is exhausted, how many more Pandora consoles have to be sold before an updated model can be considered?

[SONY]

Not sure why some people had to send angry emails when all they had to do was read a little more into all this.

[Grench]

Not sure why some people had to send angry emails when all they had to do was read a little more into all this.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow." (Men in Black, 1997)

[Orion4874]

Would be nice if some of the people that sent the Emails posted here but that probably won't happen. C'mon guys explain what the problem is before junping the gun and cancelling. It only hurts the project more by doing so!

[B-ZaR]

I too read too much into this. I accuse my instant enthusiasm toward open source devices!

Maybe this'll calm the suddenly restless waters of the community.

[Blue Protoman]

How could you NOT expect this to cause controversy?