36 replies to this topic

[Mr_Loon]

Does anyone else think it’s time for Open Pandora GmbH (ED’s company) resurrect the Pandora Dev fund?

Now that Pandora production seems to be entering a more stable phase with units being available in stock, it strikes me that a well administered, open & transparent community dev fund could be a huge boon.

Can I please request that this discussion is not about past mistakes or the way the original dev fund should have been used. If you want to question the way things have been done in the past then please start a new thread.

Here’s what I’d like to see for a Pandora Dev fund :

• The fund administered by ED or another representative of Open Pandora GmbH.
• The ability to donate to the dev fund directly from a prominent place on the official Pandora website.
• The total raised by the fund & the amounts paid to devs be available as public record.
• The ability for people to donate to a specific project.

A focus on projects that add value to the Pandora would seem to be a logical way to spend money raised by the dev fund.

For example, a way of using an external controller (IControlPad, PS3 / Wii Classic Controller, USB Dual Analouge Joystick etc.) with a Pandora so there is an option that when using the controller it has the same effect of using the inbuilt Pandora controls. This would make using a TV out cable with Pandora a truly pleasant user experience.

[ekianjo]

For example, a way of using an external controller (IControlPad, PS3 / Wii Classic Controller, USB Dual Analouge Joystick etc.) with a Pandora so there is an option that when using the controller it has the same effect of using the inbuilt Pandora controls. This would make using a TV out cable with Pandora a truly pleasant user experience.

Hum, isn't that Already possible ?

There are drivers for the PS3 pad, apparently, working for the Pandora.

It just seems very far-fetched to want to use the Pandora as a media-player or set-top box for your TV. Of course, you can always use it for that, but that's not really made for that. You don't have HDMI out, the resolution is limited, etc...

We should aim at funding stuff that's worth doing. The main purpose of the Pandora is to be an open gaming device, and what it does better than the rest is to play games on it.

[_wb_]

It is also a mini-laptop, so I don't think the dev fund should focus on games only. In my opinion, anything that makes the general desktop experience smoother is very much worth doing. Things I think need to get priority:

• .next development
• a music player that uses the DSP so the CPU is maximally free (in case you want to do stuff while having background music) and battery life increases even more when used as an MP3 player
• nicer desktop experience: e.g. when pressing the Pandora button, the menu is now shown (it seems) by simulating a click on the menu button, but this does not work if the menu button is not visible (e.g. when browsing fullscreen)
• smoother upgrades: keep settings when reflashing the NAND, have a way to upgrade when booting from SD
• collecting everything in the repo - too much stuff is still in random places, it should all be nicely centralized (although some mirrors of the repo could be nice)

[Mr_Loon]

Hum, isn't that Already possible ? There are drivers for the PS3 pad, apparently, working for the Pandora. It just seems very far-fetched to want to use the Pandora as a media-player or set-top box for your TV. Of course, you can always use it for that, but that's not really made for that. You don't have HDMI out, the resolution is limited, etc...

The idea is that an external controller would mirror the Pandora controls at all levels, from desktop to game. i.e the analogue sticks would would mirror movement from the nubs etc.

The example given was for those who wanted to use the Pandora as a retro gaming console with an external display. People who wanted to use a Pandora that way could donate to that specific project.

[Craigix]

Can I please request that this discussion is not about past mistakes or the way the original dev fund should have been used.

?!

Are you suggesting we didn't get the original $1000+ units to the right devs? Are you not happy with what has been achieved?

[Mr_Loon]

Are you suggesting we didn't get the original $1000+ units to the right devs? Are you not happy with what has been achieved?

Not at all, the choice of devs was spot on & what has been achieved is mind boggling.

However, my understanding of the Dev fund is that it was to be used to fund software & OS development not to buy dev units. IMHO the cost of Dev units should have been covered by the sale cost of the Pandora, along with prototyping etc.

Anyway, let's get back on topic :

Is it time to resurrect the dev fund?

[Craigix]

A large amount of the Dev fund went to a particular developer who ripped us off.

I have to say that is sort of what killed it, in terms of handing over cash to people.

I'd rather see us raise and donate money to people who have already made and ported software, as a reward.

My experience is that people do things because they want to in this scene, the money makes little difference in terms
of an incentive in advance.

[onpon4]

For example, a way of using an external controller (IControlPad, PS3 / Wii Classic Controller, USB Dual Analouge Joystick etc.) with a Pandora so there is an option that when using the controller it has the same effect of using the inbuilt Pandora controls. This would make using a TV out cable with Pandora a truly pleasant user experience.

I think the problem with this is that some games look at the hardware directly. Is it possible to fool even these programs into thinking A on the iCP is also A on the Pandora? Right now it's possible to fool those that look at keycodes using qjoypad (which really should be maintained on the Repo, IMO).

[mcobit]

If you want it on the repo, just upload it there

[Stephane Hockenhull]

I'd rather see us raise and donate money to people who have already made and ported software, as a reward.

as a dev, I'd rather receive my paid-for Pandora than money.

[Pickle]

My suggestion would be to just give to the person directly, this way you know exactly where its going and what it is going to support.

[Craigix]

My suggestion would be to just give to the person directly, this way you know exactly where its going and what it is going to support.

I agree with this.

[Stephane Hockenhull]

For example, a way of using an external controller (IControlPad, PS3 / Wii Classic Controller, USB Dual Analouge Joystick etc.) with a Pandora so there is an option that when using the controller it has the same effect of using the inbuilt Pandora controls. This would make using a TV out cable with Pandora a truly pleasant user experience.

I think the problem with this is that some games look at the hardware directly. Is it possible to fool even these programs into thinking A on the iCP is also A on the Pandora? Right now it's possible to fool those that look at keycodes using qjoypad (which really should be maintained on the Repo, IMO).

nah, the problem is that the current input driver is less than ideal.

the buttons are 1 input device.
the left nub is 1 input device.
the right nub is 1 input device.

rather than present the gaming controls like EVERY OTHER JOYSTICKS on the market.
and the games have to poll 3 to 4 input devices at a time to get 1 player controls

and the more we wait before fixing this crap the more software is made to depend on this very bad design.

the driver should present only 1 gaming device, 1 mouse, and 1 keyboard, with the same button configuration as a defacto-standard such as XBox 360 or Logitech controller, and allow reordering the buttons right in the driver (and no, its not going to bloat, you can implement remapping in less than 1KB ).

switching modes should leave the /dev/input/event devices as they are and simply stop sending event (after recentering the virtual nubs and releasing the virtual buttons) so users wont have to restart software that only scan input devices on start-up.

we can transition this smoothly by deprecating but still supporting the old input scheme, making the new one the default but with a compatibility mode, until people have a chance to adjust their ports.

[Christoph.Krn]

I had thought about the dev fund some time ago, too, which resulted in something I've mentioned over in the thread What do people think of the 1ghz Pandas? that might be relevant here. It uses a principle that's stolen^H^H^H^H^H^Hinspired by the Humble Indie Bundle, and it might work well either alone or in combination with a general dev fund:

Make regular Pandora coding competitions. Allow people to buy the winning PNDs individually in addition to being able to download them for free, where buyers can freely split their money between:

• Author(s) of PND
• Price money for 1st winner of next competition
• Price money for 2nd winner of next competition
• Price money for 3rd winner of next competition
• Price money for 4th winner of next competition
• Price money for 5th winner of next competition
• OpenPandora-initiated gameplay project
• The Electronic Frontier Foundation

Source: http://boards.openpa...160#entry154050 -- any updates to the above will happen there.

This is obviosuly just a base to start with. The individual list items are more or less placeholders, and I don't know whether this would be feasible.

Also, since this post is kind of cross-post-ish, if you think that what I just wrote doesn't belong here, you can just ignore it (or send me PM).

[quartercast]

A large amount of the Dev fund went to a particular developer who ripped us off.

[onpon4]

If you want it on the repo, just upload it there

You're not supposed to upload things you're not maintaining.

[ingoreis]

Hi.
Was the Rebirth Competition not Payed from the Dev Fund?
When we spend again,maybe there is a Second Competition.
That is a good Idea,we Spend to ED and he make some Competitions

[mcobit]

Onpon4: I compiled it just fix the pxml and upload it. Make me a maintainer if you like.

[Mr_Loon]

A large amount of the Dev fund went to a particular developer who ripped us off.

With the benefit of hindsight, cash on delivery is the way to avoid this happening again.

I'd rather see us raise and donate money to people who have already made and ported software, as a reward.

My experience is that people do things because they want to in this scene, the money makes little difference in terms of an incentive in advance.

That makes sense, however there are certain situations where the Pandora could do with a specific improvement that perhaps this would not cover.

For instance a minimal kernel that dealt purely with recharging would be a real boon for user friendliness. I realise that this is a fairly minor example but making the Pandora recharge like every other comparable electronic device would make a lot of sense to me.

[Binky]

cash on delivery is the way to avoid this happening again.

i.e. bounties