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Preparing for Germany (2011-08-26)


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#81 OFFLINE   ahahah

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 03:04 PM

I'd rather have mine swapped out with a new board, then have my old board refurbished for someone else. Everyone wins that way.


everyone wins that way?
who will accept an "old" used pandora when he know he could have a newer one?

some people have already their unit, and some other are still waiting.
it's not fair for those who are waiting to get an "old" one when those who already have their, get a "new" one. it's my opinion.

i have already bought a nintendo DS, nintendo would probably not accept to swap my unit with a 3DS or a later model

edit: a 1ghz cpu will decrease or not the battery autonomy? if yes: a lot or not?

#82 OFFLINE   optional106

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 03:14 PM

How about allowing those still waiting 1st batchers the chance to move directly to the front of the 2nd batch queue if they wished?
Any left over/ remaining 1st batch boards can be sold as replacement boards or as a cheaper alternative to the 2nd batch boards.

I'm sure that there would still be a market for the batch 1 spec Pandoras.
Not everyone needs the few extra MB and MHZ, it's still perfectly funtional.

Or how about an option to return the 1st batch pandoras for a batch 2 once you have built up enough batch 2s ?
You could continue to sell any 1st batch boards as refurbished models or replacement boards.
I mean its silly to think that there will only be 3000 first batch pandoras out in the wild anyway.

Once pandora fever starts and with lots of units being continually pumped out, its going to dwarf the numbers of the first 3000 in the wild.

#83 OFFLINE   MasterP

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 03:20 PM

I've been waiting since christmas last year for my pandora....so i have to say, it would be pretty fair if my pandora got a slight upgrade....but then again, the world isn't fair, and people need to deal with it.


if you can ED, make batch 2 have the new processor, but if you can't, i can just deal with it. :)

#84 OFFLINE   milkshake

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 03:24 PM

lol everyone chomping at the bit to get a newer model.

@ahahah in regards to refurbed boards I dont think they were ever planning on selling them at the same price as new or updated models they would be sold as refurbs at a cheeper price lol so dont worry.
I can see there being 4 tiers of pandora.

  • Pandora 1.5 (updated CPU)
  • Pandora (v1.5 refurb) (ebay outlet these maybe?)
  • Pandora (original)
  • Pandora (v1 refurb) (ebay outlet these maybe?)

@optional106 I dont think swapping the original 3000 units for updated models is a good idea to be fair, an upgrade option sure where the end user pays the upgrade cost but not free replacements, also if you a batch 1 preorder and CC come through with some original working boards then im afriad you would still have to receive an original item i would imagine otherwise what would they do with these? they cant all just be used for RMA.
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#85 OFFLINE   F_Slim

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 03:38 PM

How about allowing those still waiting 1st batchers the chance to move directly to the front of the 2nd batch queue if they wished?

No need for that, because:

There is nothing fixed yet, it's just an idea.
I justed posted a big new update explaining things.

IF we go for it, then the ones still waiting for their unit would get the new CPU as well.
That's what I'm trying to achieve!



#86 OFFLINE   optional106

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 03:41 PM

@optional106 I dont think swapping the original 3000 units for updated models is a good idea to be fair, an upgrade option sure where the end user pays the upgrade cost but not free replacements, also if you a batch 1 preorder and CC come through with some original working boards then im afriad you would still have to receive an original item i would imagine otherwise what would they do with these? they cant all just be used for RMA.


I meant free swap for only those that have still not received a unit from batch 1.
Some of us are still waiting since 2008 for a unit.

Obviously if you already have a 1st batcher and send it in for a RMA, you should get same batch 1 back.
I agree with the upgrade option, and any left over 1st batch boards could go back as cheaper refurbished machines.
Maybe C.C can continue with a slow cranking out of boards -My point is that theres still a potential market for 1st batch boards alongside 2nd batch boards which should become the norm once production eventually ramps up ( dwarfing the 3000 original 1st batch boards out there)

#87 ONLINE   WizardStan

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 03:41 PM

edit: a 1ghz cpu will decrease or not the battery autonomy? if yes: a lot or not?

An idle CPU clocked at 1Ghz will use about the same power as an idle CPU at 500Mhz. The 1Ghz speed will consume a little more power if it is being run 100% but that's true even now if you overclock.

#88 OFFLINE   Gadgetoid

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 03:49 PM

Some of us are still waiting since 2008 for a unit.


And we still have a pretty steep discount to show for our troubles.

Even with a 1Ghz Pandora on the market, I'm pretty sure we could sell our older Pandoras on EBay for what we paid for them and pick up a 1Ghz one.

Newer Pandoras will certainly not go down in price, so there will be a market for this cheaper alternative, giving us a very clear and simple upgrade path.

OpenPandora owe us nothing but what we purchased. We bought it at a huge discount compared to the current price.

Why bother them for an upgrade, an extremely difficult thing for them to pull off financially and politically, when it's so easy to EBay and use the proceeds to do it ourselves?

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#89 OFFLINE   Gekko90

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 04:13 PM

I'm curious about the speed difference between the new and old on the same CPU speed.
if you overclock an i7 2,6ghz to 3,2ghz it will be just as fast as a stock i7 3,2ghz
can i see this new cpu like this or is it more like i5 vs i7

#90 OFFLINE   ZXDunny

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 04:31 PM



Some of us are still waiting since 2008 for a unit.


And we still have a pretty steep discount to show for our troubles.

Even with a 1Ghz Pandora on the market, I'm pretty sure we could sell our older Pandoras on EBay for what we paid for them and pick up a 1Ghz one.

Newer Pandoras will certainly not go down in price, so there will be a market for this cheaper alternative, giving us a very clear and simple upgrade path.

OpenPandora owe us nothing but what we purchased. We bought it at a huge discount compared to the current price.

Why bother them for an upgrade, an extremely difficult thing for them to pull off financially and politically, when it's so easy to EBay and use the proceeds to do it ourselves?


This, this and this.

I bought mine for £200. It's a first batch original, with an upgraded LCD cable. It has screw covers in the lid (which are still black - Craig said that they go white for some reason). I consider mine to be a late prototype and I love it to bits.

So my dilemma is: Do I get a replacement board for mine, or do I keep it as-is and buy a new Pandora? As for speed, mine is permanently clocked to 900MHz anyway.

D.
10 PRINT "SCUNTHORPE!"(2 TO 5): GOTO 10

#91 OFFLINE   s33k3r

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 04:33 PM


How about allowing those still waiting 1st batchers the chance to move directly to the front of the 2nd batch queue if they wished?

No need for that, because:

There is nothing fixed yet, it's just an idea.
I justed posted a big new update explaining things.

IF we go for it, then the ones still waiting for their unit would get the new CPU as well.
That's what I'm trying to achieve!

I posted this on the other thread, but this seems to be getting all the attion so....

Simple, the key statement here is "the ones still waiting". I believe that my preorder is probably one the next ones to be sent, as such I will already have my pandora (old one) when these new units start to appear. If I move to the 2nd batch, I'm will get one of the new ones for sure, I've already waited 2.5 years an extra Two Months is nothing.

#92 OFFLINE   milkshake

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 04:41 PM

posted this on the other thread, but this seems to be getting all the attion so....

Simple, the key statement here is "the ones still waiting". I believe that my preorder is probably one the next ones to be sent, as such I will already have my pandora (old one) when these new units start to appear. If I move to the 2nd batch, I'm will get one of the new ones for sure, I've already waited 2.5 years an extra Two Months is nothing.

the problem with this is that you are in fact trying to select the updated model when in reality you wouldnt get to choose like this; its unfair to the others from batch 1 preorder who might receive a pandora v1 instead of the upgraded model.
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#93 OFFLINE   MWeston

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 04:56 PM

There isn't going to be a 1GHz chip going into Pandora for a long time if ever. We ordered THOUSANDS of 3530's a long time ago thinking that CC would actually produce boards on a schedule and those chips are going to run into batch 3. We can't just tell the distributor, "oh sorry, here take these back" because the parts are in our possession and the deal is done. If you don't want to take my or OP's word for it, you can ask Notaz and maybe other software devs. I discussed this with Notaz ages ago. We both agreed that we would love to go to the DM3730 but we pre-ordered a ton of 3530 stock that prevents any further discussion of such thing unfortunately. ED's wishful thinking has the unfortunate side effect of sounding official and he doesn't deal with parts ordering. Craig and I do (did) but now he knows the situation. Hopefully people keep reading this topic and realize that other than a possibly better paint job, their Pandora will be the same as everyone else. It has to be. We have no choice. We can't just toss $100k+ worth of chips in the garbage.

#94 OFFLINE   EvilDragon

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 05:02 PM

Yes, if this has been misunderstood, I'm sorry.

I thought I made myself clear that this is just some idea right now, far from being really happening.
We just wanted to find out what you'd think of that.

I made a new post explaining that here as well.



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#95 OFFLINE   Caine

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 05:03 PM

Thanks for clearing that up MWeston.

#96 OFFLINE   Custom Processing Unltd

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 05:14 PM

That's too bad... I was looking forward to the 1GHz stock processor... by that sound, it will likely be a Pandora2 thing moreso than a "1.5" opportunity. Not a big deal for me... especially if it's a swappable board in the end. THAT would be a beautiful design! having all internal components designed to be easily swapped out when better hardware is offered... like a rolling release distro, but for hardware! (would go nicely with the concept of open-source hardware Open-source hardware - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)... Then people can buy one Pandora, and as newer hardware comes out (at least to a point where compatibility is lost by more than 30% or so) the current owners can buy the new board or LCD direct from OPT and the new owners can get a 2.0, 3.0, etc new product... win-win in my book! And a revolutionary act in itself... no other embedded device is that modularly upgradeable. So that is something for OPT to think about (which will most DEFINITELY add value and create a real buzz about the Pandora again)...

*idea rant over* :P

#97 OFFLINE   Neko

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 06:49 PM

There isn't going to be a 1GHz chip going into Pandora for a long time if ever. We ordered THOUSANDS of 3530's a long time ago thinking that CC would actually produce boards on a schedule and those chips are going to run into batch 3. We can't just tell the distributor, "oh sorry, here take these back" because the parts are in our possession and the deal is done. If you don't want to take my or OP's word for it, you can ask Notaz and maybe other software devs. I discussed this with Notaz ages ago. We both agreed that we would love to go to the DM3730 but we pre-ordered a ton of 3530 stock that prevents any further discussion of such thing unfortunately. ED's wishful thinking has the unfortunate side effect of sounding official and he doesn't deal with parts ordering. Craig and I do (did) but now he knows the situation. Hopefully people keep reading this topic and realize that other than a possibly better paint job, their Pandora will be the same as everyone else. It has to be. We have no choice. We can't just toss $100k+ worth of chips in the garbage.


Well it really depends on how much people are willing to pay. If someone wants to pay extra for a faster chip, and they're willing to pay enough extra to cover the cost of throwing out the old one, then it's feasible. Come up with a price and see how many are willing to pay it.

#98 OFFLINE   frostfall

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 06:57 PM

My guess is that you should assemble / deliver the 3530 chip to those who paid ~350 euros on preorder AND accept new customers who wants a "normal" pandora with a discounted price.
For all those who paid 550 euros (or want to upgrade there preorder to this price), put a brand new DM3730...

I'm sure there will be people to buy the 3530 pandora at that price and feel they had an opportunity to obtain a pandora to a really good price.
For the other and the standard price, a brand new processor with a lot of possibility...

I'm thinking of this because I would surely "upgrade" my preorder(IE: pay more) to have a new processor. It's seems fair to me, as you need money for the project and it's a win/win.

(Sorry for the poor english :))

#99 OFFLINE   fredg999

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 07:56 PM

Before starting: I consider that the change might or might not occur, that it is still just an idea and that it would take time before seeing life if it is kept. That also explains the abuse of the word "would" (and I tried to avoid "will" in most cases). I also use "Standard" and "new"/"upgraded" to differentiate the versions of the Pandora (some people use "1.5" for the newer version and "old" for the current one too).

Taking up such a decision must be really hard, since they involve several modifications, some of which have been overseen in this thread. In my opinion (I have no Pandora, to make it clear; while that might influence my point of view, I will try to expose the facts, then my opinion at some places), improving the Pandora's performance would gather more positive consequences than negative ones.

The new processor, which would be increased from the standard 600MHz to 1GHz, would allow for more elaborate applications and for more applications to run at the same time (for example, browsing the web, listening to music and chatting with people). However, I wouldn't expect too much of these applications early in the development.
  • First, since the developers test their applications using their Pandora, which has the current Pandora performance, they cannot see the results on a new Pandora. Therefore, they would mainly optimize the applications for "Standard" Pandoras, making them available for all Pandora owners. Nobody can be jealous this way, unless I am mistaken.
  • I think it is relevant to note that the developers might want to get an upgraded Pandora to benefit from the increased performance. As proposed by many others, the pre-orderers and other people still waiting for a Pandora should get their Pandora before those that already own one; this way, people are going to wait less time, however because the existing developers might not create applications optimized to be used with an improved Pandora, the new Pandora owners will in fact not really benefit from the increase in performance unless for running some applications that are already a little slow or for running more applications at the same time. When it is time for the "Standard" Pandora owners to get their upgrades, or basically a new Pandora (they will receive it later than others because they ordered it later, naturally), new applications for improved systems might come out more than before. "Standard" Pandora owners who would not wish to upgrade their console can still run the new applications, be it more slowly in most cases. While this can be annoying, it is not always necessary for an application to run at full speed (however, for emulators it is very important I must admit).
  • Overclocking the existing processors can make the "Standard" Pandoras able to run applications designed for the new Pandoras, unless they require the new Pandoras to be overclocked. This might be needed for a Saturn emulator, from what I read, since it is a 5th generation console; same for PlayStation and Nintendo 64 emulators. Unfortunately, "Standard" Pandora owners might not be able to run at full speed these applications; however it is each person's choice to consider the time they spent with their Pandora while others were waiting as a fair trade-off or not. They can later decide whether to get a new Pandora or not.
Note: I only presume the new processor will allow overclocking, since the current one does.

About memory, it is discussed that there would be an increase to the amount of RAM. In such a case, it might allow for more memory-consuming applications to be developed to be used on the Pandora. I would like to cite Java-based applications which were proposed to be ported to the Pandora; since these applications tend to use more memory (Java usually likes to take up memory when it's available to improve performance), an increase in memory could help them run on a Pandora. Notable examples would be the LibreOffice suite and, obviously, Minecraft. There are many others, most of which I probably don't know or just can't think of at the moment...

A better 3D GPU would make some jealous though. Unless I am mistaken again, I guess the old console emulators would not need the 3D enhancements, while the emulators for 5th generation consoles (Saturn, PlayStation, Nintendo 64) would benefit from it. Several homebrew games might also take advantage from it, however I believe that it will allow for higher quality settings to be available without letting down the original settings to allow "Standard" Pandora owners to play those games too. Aside from games, video playback might also be improved, but I'm not so sure about that. I don't know how well video currently plays on a Pandora, so that might just be nonsense.

Some people were wondering about NAND storage; I think that even if it was increased, I wouldn't see the utility. For more storage, there are two SD card slots and two USB ports. And there is the Internet. :D Since the system software would not be different (shared among the different Pandoras), the space needed would not differ either. Anyway that's just my own opinion, if you find a utility to increased NAND storage then go and propose it, but I personally don't think it's worth it or even useful.

Another difference which is perhaps more likely to occur is the modification of the shoulder buttons location. That doesn't change anything to software compatibility, only the ergonomics, though I am not aware of people complaining about them (well that is what I guess since I have read none or very few people telling about the shoulder buttons).

The proposition above to make it possible to change the internal parts of the Pandora using an Open Source Hardware concept, while very interesting, would require several serious modifications from the original one and supporting that version as well as the original would be extremely demanding. For such a concept to be adopted, it is better to use it from the start. Unless we find a way to make it possible and that most people agree, I don't think it is in the interests of the Pandora team to think about making so drastic modifications.

Now that everyone (in fact I should say most Pandora followers, if that is accurate enough) is thinking "A better Pandora, I want it!", including the current Pandora owners. What would happen with the old Pandoras then?
  • In the beginning, as mentioned previously, it is probable that the current users will have their "Standard" Pandora for a while, since new owners will have higher priority than upgrades (be it a trade or a new one, being at the end of the list).
  • However, when several people got their new Pandora, what happens to the "Standard" ones? They go to trash? Of course not! They could be sold on eBay or other sites to people who want a refurbished Pandora for a lighter cost. Even better, they could be sold to a family member or a friend who wants to get involved in this community after learning about it. Even better, instead of selling it, it could be given as a gift! (but make sure that person is going to make good use of it before selling/giving it to someone else!)
  • I don't know exactly how an upgrade would happen; a possibility would be a trade, because changing the chip (and/or anything else that gets changed), but after that it would be a little like above, unless the Pandora team sells refurbished Pandoras on its site instead of eBay or other similar sites.

I think I covered most of the subject, if I forgot anything or said anything wrong, feel free to feedback (not like I could prevent you from doing it anyway :P ). I repeat again that this must be taken in consideration that the upgrade of the hardware is only a speculation.

Finally, I must say that even if the idea in the end gets rejected, that the near-future Pandoras have the same technical specifications as the current ones, there will be an impact; people were expecting an upgrade and they don't get it, perhaps causing a lower mood. Is that a fact, an argument, or both? You decide.

The Pandora, while based on a team, is a community project, without its community it is nonexistent. So, unless the Pandora team is unable to fund the upgrade or if other problems occur, it is mainly the community's choice, our choice, to decide of the future of the Pandora.

#100 OFFLINE   dreamer

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 08:52 PM

I've already waited 2.5 years an extra Two Months is nothing.

I really doubt we'll see the new production starting in the next 2 months.

The initial quotation isn't even here yet. Let along any test runs that will need to be made.
The new company will also need to get the hang of the testing rigs ED made etc.

A better guesstimate for the first units of batch 2 to arrive would probably be 'early 2012'.


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