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Hardware capabilities based on new applications


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#1 OFFLINE   Usoppe

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:28 PM

Hi everyone,

I think that basing hardware choices on new applications for 2.Gen Pandora would be very benefitical. Old applications would be for example emulations of old game platforms on which the Pandora 1 is already very good in (even N64 can be emulated, now). So we shouldnt just focus on more horse power to get 5 FPS more in Mario 64 or so...

Better is when we clear the way for new applications, for example:

Game streaming. Everyone is talking about it, Ipad and Android are already doing it (OnLive via WLAN and 4G networks are near-middle future and will open the way of game streaming "on the streets"). We need to support it, too.

Ok, OnLive is a commecial product and it lies on the company to write a client for the Pandora. But we can do an open source game streaming software on our own; For every component there is something already done in the open source community, see Taksi http://taksi.sourceforge.net/, x264, ffmpeg

But there are some requirements

- The SoC on which the Pandora 2 will base on needs a capable decoding power. It must be fast as possible in decoding to reduce latency; e.g. the round-trip time, which shows how fast a result of an user control sent by the client to the game on the server is seen in the video streamed to the client by the server. It should be capable of decoding H.264 video, Level 5.1: http://x264dev.multi...cx/archives/249 (suggested encoding parameters to encode video as fast as possible with x264 leads to video classified as Level 5.1).

- If a DSP is used it must be programmable easily without needing xyz. I think its still the problem of P1...

Perhaps more ideas for new applications, anyone?

Other improvements could be:

- Applications like Open Office, Firefox, etc. are running already, but it can be better and the RAM shouldnt limit the opportunities to use the software we are used to work with on the PC for example.

- Casual games like Angry Birds could be played with a stylo on the P1. And it could be controlled by fingers, too, but not as good as on Android Phones or IPhones. A touch screen which offers better user input for fingers would be nice.

- Bigger screen (there are some threads already) which leads to a bigger case. -> Lets use that condition and get a thinner and sexier device ; )

- I know, theres a patent on this. But if we could realize a completely turnable screen (180°) and clap it on the keyboard (so the keyboard disappears behind the screen) it would rise the attractiveness factor, also.

#2 OFFLINE   Binky

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:57 AM

- Bigger screen (there are some threads already) which leads to a bigger case. -> Lets use that condition and get a thinner and sexier device ; )


I do not want a bigger Pandora, I want a Pandora with a lid full of screen.
I think if people want casual gaming, then an android port/install is the way to go.

My current feeling is that:
for what you can do with a Pandora, its awesome
but for what the Pandora can do. It needs work.
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#3 OFFLINE   -Tj-

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:11 AM

What I'd like to do with my Pandora that I probably can't do [decently or at all] now:
- Multitouch
- Drawing with pressure
- Variable resolution digital video out w/dual monitor support (Pandora screen, external screen), up to 720p, at least

What might be nice to add:
- Trackball or small optical track pad

What might be handy if Android goes on it:
- GPS
- Compass
- Gyroscope
- Accelerometer
- Capacitive screen (but if it gets this I want a Wacom digitizer behind it)

I don't mind not having a screen that locks at 180° so long as it can lock open flat for drawing on. I don't want a bigger device; the Pandora is plenty big already. I'd actually prefer it to be a little smaller (it's quite chubby compared to other similar-sized portables).

Game streaming I could do without. It might be neat to stream a game from a computer from somewhere, but in nearly every case I've used streaming there's been lag, and I really, really hate lag. It's partly why I never play competitive online games. If someone shows me the tech in person and the lag isn't that bad maybe I'll change my mind, but I've noticed lag in the order of milliseconds in certain cases and even that bugged me.

#4 OFFLINE   Caine

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:53 PM

What I'd like to do with my Pandora that I probably can't do [decently or at all] now:
- Multitouch
- Drawing with pressure

From what I can tell, the mypaint port supports drawing with pressure.

What do you want to have the multitouch for? Aside from perhaps the occasional odd game, it is not all that useful.

- Capacitive screen (but if it gets this I want a Wacom digitizer behind it)

How would you compensate for the lack of precision? With a capacitive screen you could not decently operate XFCE.

#5 OFFLINE   slaeshjag

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:23 PM

- Bigger screen (there are some threads already) which leads to a bigger case. -> Lets use that condition and get a thinner and sexier device ; )


A bigger device wouldn't make it thinner. Look at the current battery size. Imagine you could flatten it out to infinity. That's the maximum thickness that could be gained. I don't think it's worth making it bigger for that little win in thickness, It's snug enough in my pockets.

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#6 OFFLINE   Craigix

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:12 PM

We would look at making the P2 a little smaller if anything, moving the speakers and such.

#7 OFFLINE   Darkknight512

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:32 PM

We would look at making the P2 a little smaller if anything, moving the speakers and such.

I think the top section should only have the LCD, and everything else should be in the bottom. Was there a particular reason the wifi antenna was in the top?
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#8 OFFLINE   Binky

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:46 PM


We would look at making the P2 a little smaller if anything, moving the speakers and such.

I think the top section should only have the LCD, and everything else should be in the bottom. Was there a particular reason the wifi antenna was in the top?


Agree, although few indicator lights in the lid would be OK.
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#9 OFFLINE   sepp256

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:07 PM

What do people think about having a touch pad on the back of the P2 base, like the PSV has? I'm curious to see what Sony will do with it, as it could potentially be pretty useful.

#10 OFFLINE   Craigix

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:11 PM


We would look at making the P2 a little smaller if anything, moving the speakers and such.

I think the top section should only have the LCD, and everything else should be in the bottom. Was there a particular reason the wifi antenna was in the top?


Yes, that would be my preferred choice. I don't remember exactly why the wifi was in the top, my my memory is saying something like to try to use the LCD panel to boost the signal.

#11 OFFLINE   thatgui

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:53 PM

As most modern Net/Notebooks do it the same way, the reasons might be:
- already cramped in the bottom
- having the possiblity to use a "full circle" meaning the antenna could be laid long with no obstacles (like usb ports) in their way

#12 OFFLINE   albo

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:55 PM

I personally don't think a touch bad on the back would be useful on P2, the touchscreen is good, and if it will be designed similar to P1, having a touchpad behind the screen would be awful. I know Pandora is not too much focused on gaming, but if P2 will run the PS2 emulator PCSX2 surely it could sell a lot, maybe it could be "The first handheld that emulates the PS2" (that surely would help that kickstarter/indiegogo project).

The first Pandora wasn't too big or too small so P2 could have about the same size.

#13 ONLINE   Levi

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:16 PM

As most modern Net/Notebooks do it the same way, the reasons might be:

- already cramped in the bottom<
- having the possiblity to use a "full circle" meaning the antenna could be laid long with no obstacles (like usb ports) in their way


Or it helps avoid the hands attenuating the wifi radio signal, I'd have thought.

#14 OFFLINE   Exophase

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:23 PM

I on the other hand think a back touchpad would be nice for mousing. The screen touchpad is inconvenient because it's located on the top. I can't speak for anyone else but my nubs mouse very poorly. I'd much rather have a pad on the back, where I don't have to worry about smudging the screen up or pulling out a stylus.

#15 OFFLINE   Binky

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:23 PM

What do people think about having a touch pad on the back of the P2 base, like the PSV has? I'm curious to see what Sony will do with it, as it could potentially be pretty useful.


If new sensors are being added, I'd prefer something along the lines of a GPS chip
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#16 OFFLINE   -Tj-

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:49 PM


What I'd like to do with my Pandora that I probably can't do [decently or at all] now:
- Multitouch
- Drawing with pressure

From what I can tell, the mypaint port supports drawing with pressure.
What do you want to have the multitouch for? Aside from perhaps the occasional odd game, it is not all that useful.

I probably should have put multitouch under the "if Android" section. There's no need for it under a desktop environment on a touch screen, but in Android a lot of apps will become less user-friendly without it. Think pinch to zoom and game input. There's no guarantee that if P2 gets a green light with Android that developers will support its game controls specifically, so without multitouch you're going to be at a loss trying to play certain games that need more than 1 input simultaneously.

Regarding pressure, from what I've heard pressure from a resistive touch screen isn't the greatest, and why I put the "[decently or at all]" note there.


- Capacitive screen (but if it gets this I want a Wacom digitizer behind it)

How would you compensate for the lack of precision? With a capacitive screen you could not decently operate XFCE.

That's lumped under the "if Android" section, see above note.

Precision is exactly why I've mentioned in the past that I wouldn't want a capacitive screen on my Pandora. You can't use a stylus very well on a capacitive screen since you have to use a sausage to make it work, and I understand this fact quite well. I've had resistive screens from the days of Palm till just last year when I switched from WinMo to Android, and there are many days when I wish I had my resistive screen back. It's very, very difficult to tap a link on a link-dense page on a capacitive screen and that loss of precision is why I noted I'd want a digitizer behind it to pick up stylus input.


Having just got my Vita I'm not sure I like the back touch pad. Yeah, it's nice to not block the view, but I can't see where I'm touching. Might work as a decent mouse device as was mentioned above, but beyond that, I don't see the advantage. Besides that, I'd worry about scratching it up on the bottom unless P2 has sufficiently large enough feet to keep it away from stray salt grains and the like.

The WiFi antenna, I'd have thought it was in the lid to keep the signal stronger when held, like Levi said.

#17 OFFLINE   Prometheus

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:28 AM

Regarding pressure, from what I've heard pressure from a resistive touch screen isn't the greatest, and why I put the "[decently or at all]" note there.

The screen from the Nintendo DS disagrees with you. ;) (Mouse over to see how these images were made - you can sort of see the pressure-sensitivity in action when you watch them, though it's more readily obvious if you've actually used the application responsible).

#18 OFFLINE   -Tj-

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 03:47 AM

Ok, you have my attention, but how does one get a hold of that? I'd like to try it. I can see some pressure differences in the broader strokes.

Edit: Nm, I see it. Looks like I have to wait. :P

#19 OFFLINE   miner49er

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:02 AM


Regarding pressure, from what I've heard pressure from a resistive touch screen isn't the greatest, and why I put the "[decently or at all]" note there.

The screen from the Nintendo DS disagrees with you. ;) (Mouse over to see how these images were made - you can sort of see the pressure-sensitivity in action when you watch them, though it's more readily obvious if you've actually used the application responsible).


Do we have 'colors!' for Pandora or is there an equivilent?

#20 OFFLINE   -Tj-

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:11 PM

MyPaint, perhaps? (also linked above by Caine)

Just really hard for me to know how good the pressure sensitivity is without trying it, but I do remain rather skeptical. I've been using Intuos tablets for about 14 years now, so I might just be hard to please. :P


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